That’s just not the same at all. How many times do you get to vote on the referenda? I’m really interested to know where this mindset comes from that a social media upvote/downvote is anything like a real political “vote”. It’s completely different except the name, is that where the confusion is coming from? Is this an age/demographic thing?

You can vote no or yes on a referendum. The Upvote is for comments that contribute, the downvote is for off-topic not that you disagree with the policy! By continuing this logic you’re exposing you want to continue “Voting” on whether you agree with a topic in “privacy”. That’s not how public discourse works, which this is. You guys are acting like everyone is a guest speaker and you’re the X-factor judge deciding if they should continue or get off the stage.

Anyone looking at the actual voting system on here would not say it’s democratic or fair/balanced. There are no protections or even logic to construct a system like that because we’re not voting on policies! This is a town square, not your local council. You’re wanting to walk into the square and vote on the flowers or people walking by, that’s not how public interaction should work!

In every single thread the downvote is abused as a “I disagree” or as a reactionary “I don’t like this person”. It does absolutely nothing for the conversation, it’s solely for others to feel better if the numbers match their own personality or to dissuade the person who’s being downvoted from voicing their opinion.

This whole event is rather sad and disheartening like a depressing xkcd

Everyone’s fleshed out a lot of the discussions so I’ll just bullet point my opinion to try to better explain the discourse I’m seeing on here

• I view “Lemmy” like it’s a Community Center with group discussions, Community gatherings, and/or lectures with public comments. If you’re in the crowd “Booing” (downvoting) without standing up and making your position clear, you’re not adding anything to the discussion.

• Downvote/Upvote is not like “Booth Voting” at all. You have ONE vote in a democracy, that’s the core principle. You don’t vote Yes for a candidate then vote No for another. You don’t see a ticker above the booth tallying everyone’s vote that was before you (voter manipulation, why hidden scores became a thing).

• I think this would go over a lot better if mods had the choice of how to present the votes. Opt in or out of showing voters, opt in or out of showing scores or eliminating downvotes or even upvotes if you want. Give the power to the community and create useful tools for mods to try out.

You keep getting heated and bringing up other things that aren’t equated trying to make some type of metaphor and it’s not connecting for me so I apologize if you’re getting frustrated. I don’t see the social-score and “you have nothing to hide” being a valid argument that pertains to this discussion and just fear mongering distracting from a simple forum mechanic and a system of interacting with it.

I think the upvote/downvote system is abused by the general user by default when it comes to anonymity and many more are tempted as time progresses. When you’re in a crowd you don’t boo or cheer anonymously, it’s an open public space where people see your actions. More accountability to the people interacting with a system seems like a positive to me.

In regards to the security/protection thing, others have already chimed in and hopefully you understand the data is already tracked and available to those who have a desire for it. My relevant parts where I talked about it before

You are not private or anonymous on here, if your actions on this platform put you in danger than do not continue to interact thinking it’s completely safe! These things can already be seen, this discussion is about making it show up in every UI by default instead.

Again, please stop saying this removes protections for trans/gay. That information is already public and you’re making it seem like they are currently safe versus what this change would do to them. The blocking scenario is what happens now, you just wouldn’t know they made a new account unless you’re actually able to see it. IDK why you brought video games into this, more often it’s for cheats as trolls and harassment get left unchecked on a lot of platforms. If votes don’t matter now why not change it to a form where they do matter?

If I disagree with something I’ll usually comment or upvote someone who has the same sentiment. I try my best not to petty downvote anything and I don’t understand why you’re stating you have to declare why you upvote, it’s something you find as a contribution, already defined for an intended purpose. This doesn’t take away any meaningful engagement besides mass voting in your scenario, people will still comment who have something to say. I think we just see two different sides of the aisle lol, ty for the discussion btw.

Gah, way to take it to extreme. You are not private or anonymous on here, if your actions on this platform put you in danger than do not continue to interact thinking it’s completely safe! These things can already be seen, this discussion is about making it show up in every UI by default instead.

If someone is going through your history and downvoting in a harassing way, just block them. They’re not there for discussion and the problem is solved. Without seeing a repeat offender you’ll never know and the harassment can continue. I see discussions being more open honestly, you actually have to take a second to think about your downvote instead of just gut reacting it.

I agree it would lead to less interaction, but the interaction lost would only be downvotes being used as a disagree button. No one is going to get harassed for downvoting a bot posting an ad or someone just completely off-topic, that which the downvote is suppose to be used for. In your scenario you point out that the comments you seek out have so many upvotes-downvotes because it’s controversial, not that it doesn’t add to the discussion.

I saw some other’s commenting about “private ballot boxes” but I think that’s a false equivalency. You Vote in a democracy on policy and representation, not discourse. You’re basically saying your upvote/downvote is being used to police conversation and who you think best represents you.

I’ve been looking for someone to touch on this. I didn’t like youtube getting rid of the downvotes but…what did it change? The only incidents I can think of is when there’s vote bombing on a really bad video. Lemmynsfw got rid of downvotes and they’re better for it. The only exception I can think of is a technical video that is just factually wrong but then there’s always a comment highlighting that with upvotes. Seems like the only thing we lost was sensational downvoting and the thrill of jumping on a like-minded group dislike.

I thought the whole argument was the internet was an echo chamber because of it being anonymous. Look at right-wing groups that employ masks where they can hide their true intentions behind “just being normal citizens”. It’s the groups like “Moms for Liberty” that are outed for their corruption because they have to use a public face during council meetings and such where you can’t be anonymous.

I’m having trouble seeing how downvotes being public would lead to more harassment. You would have to make sure you’re comfortable with putting your opinion forward just like with commenting. If there’s someone going around downvoting someone relentlessly it will be brought to light for all to see, not hidden like it is now. That would encourage more people to speak up because their detractors would have to do so publicly and without explanation they seem like they’re not bringing anything to the table in the discussion (returning downvotes to their true intention in the process).

edit’ format, grammar

I’m unsure with UK but I know the US it can cost a lot of money and basically has to be renewed every year meaning an annual cost (paid protection for the wealthy and all). Hopefully it’s different in other parts of the world, the police knowing though is an important thing just in case anything comes up in the future and you can show a timeline and history for evidence so definitely always have a discussion with the local authorities.

I feel like the first Ace Ventura tried to dance the line closer to an Action-Adventure/Detective-Comedy. The 2nd just leaned way into the comedy with the explosive popularity of Jim Carrey and it shows. Definitely don’t mind it, the 2nd is still my favorite but the first is also a solid movie.

That movie was definitely part of my formative years growing up

But seriously, why are all these movies reminding me of all the great songs. Makes me realize we just don’t have that many these days with great original soundtracks

Robin Williams - Batty Rap

Tim Curry - Toxic Ooze

yeah I didn’t think that trailer was right so thought I would ask (was the only trailer that popped up). I did see someone uploaded the full movie on youtube so gotta check it out today!

holy crap yes, the treasure island’s song still slaps!

lol how true to the movie is this trailer?

A good saying I’ve ran into before, “If your monkey-mind gets distracted 1 million times, you just need to refocus 1million +1 times”. Meaning no matter how many times you get distracted you just gotta refocus 1 more time so you’ll always eventually win if you keep at it.

huh, so like a reverse subscription feed curation. Definitely an interesting take I hadn’t considered but would probably want an alt for that purpose as you can’t “undo” it that easily like you can switch between subscription feed and all feed. Could be a nice experience when I’m just in a viewing mood (bathroom, work breaks, etc) and not really looking to interact.

For the first part, no not a group therapy session lol. “thoughtful reception” is probably a better apt description. You can definitely have a level of control for how your opinion is received with your attitude and how you engage in a conversation. A space and how conversation is conducted usually sets a precedence, the tools available to you with how you interact with that content is another part of it.

I was just looking for conversations about this style of social platform and the known problems that seem to inflict it. I want Lemmy to stay diverse and federated, I’m seeing a concerning trend of tribalism revolving around instance membership or interaction. As you said I can start a community if I’m looking for something else, which I have done. Starting a new corner of lemmy to stretch out in has been a wonderful experience and has helped me focus on something I want to be creative and engage with instead of wandering around Lemmy “all”.

But, I can’t help but wonder if that’s the downfall. I’ve been instance hoping a lot lately, it’s amazing to see what’s been hidden that I’m not seeing and as spaces become more condensed or closed off through defederation the stark contrast between instances is only going to grow. Basically mini-reddits (the negative parts of it), instead of spaces being smaller to allow more chances to not drown out a differing opinion. So am I contributing to this or refuting it by making my own community? Do I have a chance to avoid the main opinions becoming the mindset that others want to follow when engaging or is it just an uphill battle because of the format of this social platform. A lot of really interesting and thoughtful responses in this post, exactly what I’m looking for in community discussions and there’s been barely any hate or downvotes. It’s been refreshing and given me plenty to think about.