I was going to post this as a comment, but it was in an anarchism community, and I figured some sections of it might be unacceptable there. Hence, new post.
Here’s a guideline of how to interact with cops. There are more or less three modes, depending on your read of the situation. Cops are not always the enemy or the maniacal whole-job-is-making-evil thugs that Lemmy sometimes makes them out to be. It really is bad for people to get mugged or their cars broken into, and they’re the solution our society has come up with to minimize the amount of it that happens. It’s not always a bad thing.
If you find yourself talking to the cops, there are more or less three ways:
- They’re there to solve a real problem. Someone’s car got broken into, someone got beat up. Just talk with them. Tell them what you know, help them figure out the situation. In almost all of the US, their effect on the problem will be positive, and it’ll be a lot more positive if they have a good grasp of what happened. If, in your opinion, the person they’re trying to catch really did do something that warrants a law enforcement response, then give them a hand. Use your judgement as to whether that’s warranted of course, and your impression of the justice level in your local area, since it varies quite a lot in the US.
- They’re there for you. Shut the fuck up. Don’t say a goddamned word. It doesn’t even matter if you didn’t do it. Don’t explain. Shut the fuck up. Be polite, obey lawful orders, definitely don’t fight them or you’ll get a felony and might also get injured or worse, but tell them that if you’re suspected of a crime, then you’d like to talk to a lawyer, and you have nothing else to say. And then, shut the fuck up and cooperate. Maybe you want to go as far as “Were you shoplifting?” “What? No. That wasn’t me, man.” But any further explanation than that, just leave it alone. Definitely don’t make something up on the spot, to make yourself sound innocent, if you did do it. For the love of God, don’t do that.
- They’re there for someone who didn’t do anything wrong. The reason for this post is, anything and everything with ICE and immigration falls into this category. Some things with local cops will, also. Just be unhelpful and simple. No, I didn’t see anything. I don’t know. I’m not sure. Be vague. Don’t get creative, keep it simple, don’t refuse to give your ID or otherwise antagonize them or commit minor crimes of obstruction, but just do your best imitation of someone who just fell from the sky. “So you’ve NEVER MET your neighbor. Your neighbor across the hall.” “Nope.” “Are you sure?” “Yeah, I don’t know.” “I mean, she gave us your name, she said she’d talked to you.” “I don’t know, I don’t remember that.” Don’t embellish. Don’t explain why. Just calmly let the silence linger and the pressure build up, without adding extra words.
Like I said, everything with ICE or other immigration authorities falls into the third category. No exceptions. Everything. The same applies with any type of federal law enforcement, I suspect, for the next few years.
How much bootlicking and privilege do I have to have for these to work? If they come up to me and arrest me for existing, is that mean I did something wrong? What happens when they murder unarmed people for existing? Did they just not talk right?
Fuck this idiot never talk to cops about anything, learn your rights. Don’t ever fucking trust the fascist.
Remember kids cops are food not friends.
You just gotta keep yelling “AM I BEING DETAINED” while they keep telling you “Yes,” and then refuse to give your ID or get out of the car until they break your driver’s side window. That’ll show those stupid fascists who’s boss.
This is long but worth the watch. It is a lawyer and a police officer giving specific details on why you should never talk to the police.
Yeah, I’ve seen this before. It was also posted and discussed below. It covers scenario number 2 in quite a lot of detail, which I think is a really good thing and good advice, yes.
You’re right I somehow missed it in my skim of the comments.
Also, never answer the question, “Do you know why I pulled you over?” with anything that sounds like an admission. They’re fishing and looking to have you confess to a traffic violation.
The honest answer is “No, I’m not sure why you pulled me over,” because it’s true. There are a million motivations they might have come up with to pull you over, and you’re neither psychic or telepathic.
This is bad advice. In all cases, dont talk to them.
In the USA your advice is bad advice. You are in some situations obligated to answer questions. “Im not sure” and “I don’t know/recall” are perfectly valid answers
Those answers can be used to convict you. Don’t say anything!
“Hey, you reported a home intrusion?”
“I wont say anything without a lawyer present.”
Yep, calling the cops is a good way to get murdered. Better not to call them
In most situations, Honestly just easier to file the report at the station.
Neighbor’s car got broken into. Called the cops and for some reason, THREE cops went door to door demanding home owners hand over video of their door cams?
I went to yell at my neighbor who apologized like crazy, saying he just asked them to file a report, not play Bad Boys action-hero.
“MaN thEsE PoLiCE nEveR soLvE AnyThiNg”
Calls the cops, they investigate the crime that was reported, trying to find the bad guy.
“MaN tHesE poLiCe anD tHeiR inVesTiGaTioNs, StuPiD CopS”
Man this thread is full of people asking to get jerked around by the cops. “AM I bEiNg DetaIneD?!” Well, you definitely upped your chances.
Here’s a life lesson: don’t act like a fuckwad to anybody and your outcomes are likely to be better across the board.
Rule 1 : Don’t
Rule 2 : Am I being detained?
Rule 3 : I will not answer any questions without my lawyer present.
Be as advised, in the US, if you are driving your car, you are required to identify yourself to an officer, along with providing proof of registration and insurance. Remember, you can beat the ticket, but you can’t beat the ride.
- Resume consumption of your succulent Chinese meal
what does “can’t beat the ride” mean in this context?
Basically, if the police are going to grab you, it’s best not to resist. Exercise your rights in court, not on the pavement.
Take the ticket so you don’t get arrested is how I interpreted it.
Do not talk to the police.
This is absolutely shit advice.
You are not obligated to talk to the police. The 25 word script:
- “Why did you pull me over?”
- “I’m not discussing my day.
- “Am I being detained or am I free to go?”
If you are being detained, invoke the 5th amendment.
“Why did you pull me over?”
“Sir, we’re here because your house was robbed.”
“I’m not discussing my day”
“So you can’t tell me what was stolen and don’t want a police report for your insurance?”
“Am I being detained or am I free to go?”
“You’re in your house, sir.”
“Why did you pull me over?”
“Sir, we’re here because your house was robbed.”
Fake af. When your house is robbed, you can go fuck yourself - your shit is gone unless you’ve got GPS trackers in it. Here’s a more likely scenario:
“Why did you pull me over?”
“4 years ago you filed a report that your house was robbed. This is now becoming a problem, as people have noticed we do nothing for society, and your report is adding to that statistic. Would you like to close it, or shall we go ahead and process that broken taillight?”
“what broken taillight?”
“down on the ground! I said down!” <sounds of gunshots hitting car, sounds of body hitting steering wheel, sounds of prolonged honking, sounds of thin blue line erections, sounds of coke being sprinkled, sounds of policeman breaking taillight>
invoke the 5th amendment.
“I Invoke the 5th!”
“Sir, in Canada we don’t call them amendments. And the 5th means you have to answer but you get immunity. So keep talking.”
You joke, but there are sovereign citizen groups in Australia who try to quote US laws and documents to the cops as their argument for why the laws don’t apply to them.
I literally posted a link to a video which recommends your 25-word script, down below.
Not every interaction with the police is a traffic stop. Honestly, most traffic stops involve citations that are so trivial that it barely matters what you do, as long as you can manage not to get yanked out of the car for refusing to ID or something. This is talking about a lot more serious situations that don’t have a one-size-fits-all answer to them.
Edit: Added “most.” Sometimes, depending on what you’ve got in the car, the 25-word script is absolutely pretty fucking critical to stick to.
This is talking about a lot more serious situations that don’t have a one-size-fits-all answer to them.
DON’T FUCKING TALK TO THE POLICE! YOU DON’T HAVE ANY OBLIGATION TO TALK TO THEM.
Just take the fucking L man. You’re trying to justify to people that it’s okay to talk to the police and there is literally no fucking reason to talk to them.
It is not your job to solve their crimes
It’s not your job to make their job easier
It’s not your job to make sure they have the right person
Your statements, however innocent you think they are, can and will be used against you. Doesn’t matter if you’re a witness, an innocent bystander, or criminal.
They are not your friend.
All cops are bastards. Full stop.
I’m in the acab camp, but I’m going to disagree with you. If I’m in a shooting incident and I know who did it and they’re on the run, I’m gonna tell the cops what I know. It’s mostly black and white, but there are the exceptions.
I definitely feel like “It’s not your job to make sure they have the right person” deserves some followup questions lol.
So I was driving, late at night, and I saw a heated argument between a man and a woman.
I slowed down, sort of checking if everything was okay. Just then, he punched her in the face, pretty hard.
She fell and crumpled up on the sidewalk in a ball, I jerked my car over to the side of the road, popped out and ran over yelling. The guy turned around to me, and for some reason charged at me while I was still running at him. We collided, fell over on the asphalt together, shit was on, we fought for a little bit. Finally he turned around and just ran away. I called 911, and went over to the girl, who was still crumpled up. Her purse had fallen down and open, with her shit all scattered everywhere, and as I was going over she sort of started gathering up her stuff. I sort of knelt down, still talking to the dispatcher, and tried to tell her to relax, and she started yelling at me to hang up, I didn’t know what I was doing, she didn’t need the cops.
Fuck that, man. For one thing, they’re already on the way at this point, all me hanging up is going to do is get them here faster if anything. She finished gathering up her stuff, and also fled the area.
When the cops arrived, they were sort of darting around trying to find the guy, it took a little while before someone had time to come over and talk to me. They basically just told me to stay put. When someone had time to talk with me, they took my whole statement and sent me on my way. In the morning, a detective called me and filled me in: They’d caught up with him, but they couldn’t find her, and without a victim they couldn’t really charge him with anything. However, he did assault the police officers, just as he had both the girl and me, and so they had him on plenty of stuff. The detective asked if I wanted to press charges, I said no, and then I hesitated and asked if it was useful for me to press charges, if they wanted more stuff to get him on. The guy laughed and said, “Oh, no. We got him.” Okay, sure, if it’s purely up to me and my convenience, then I don’t care. Anyway, presumably, he got in some trouble. I am 100% on Team Cop as far as that interaction. To be honest, I also simply don’t give a shit if the girl feels her life would be impacted by this douchebag getting convicted of the crimes he committed. He also attacked me when all I was doing was running over.
Another time, my roommate was having a mental health crisis and called the cops to take her to the hospital. We saw them out in the yard with flashlights, interacted with them, they came in, she was really badly embarrassed because she was wanting them to come to the back door so we wouldn’t need to know about it. Honestly, it’s whatever. Anyway, they took her to the hospital. Nobody shot the dog, or her.
Another time, my family member died, and we called the cops to go to her place to check because we hadn’t heard from her. They found her there, let us know what was going on, handled the body and all.
Another time was another boy and girl fight. He was grabbing her arm and not letting her go, she was asking me for help, I had a pretty heated conversation with the guy and called the cops after, and they set her up with a women’s shelter until she could figure out what she wanted to do.
Another time, a homeless guy was yelling on the sidewalk at the top of his lungs and the cops got him to calm down and leave, somehow without slamming him on the concrete or taking him away for anything.
I’ve seen cops abuse their power. I’ve had friends who’ve been roughed up by the cops. I’m not saying policing is perfect, and definitely not in the United States. But, that being said:
DIFFERENT SITUATIONS ARE DIFFERENT AND NEED DIFFERENT RESPONSES
NOT EVERY COP IS THE FUCKING ENEMY
All cops are bastards. Full stop.
Generalizations are a fun kind of hate.
Thank you, agree on all points
You dont have to evoke the 5th amendment. Just dont say anything. You have the right to be silent even without saying so.
You must explicitly, without any ambiguity, invoke your right to remain silent.
You can’t just remain silent.
Of course you can. We’re not talking about being subpoenaed for a deposition. Were talking about some armed thug approaching you on the street. You’re under no obligation to talk to them.
“I never consent to searches”
“I don’t answer questions. Am I detained, or am I free to leave?”
The third option is our German chancellor (Olaf Scholz). “I dont know where these Millions went.” “I don’t remember anything about that incident.” “I don’t recall sending or receiving these messages.” “That evidence? No I don’t remember this and I refuse to talk about it” If you ask any uncomfortable questions about corruption he just stays silent.
Or Senator Mitch McConnell.
“I do not recaaawwwwwwlllllll”
Good advice. Think about the situation and get a feel for what’s going on, instead of automatically trusting or hating cops. It really isn’t smart to treat real life like a meme.
It really isn’t. I’ve seen some bodycam videos of people who got themselves in a significant amount of trouble that they didn’t need to be in, because they were aggressively ignorantly hostile to cops who were just showing up for some straightforward reason and trying to do their jobs.
I’ve seen those videos too, and I don’t know what you meant by “it really isn’t” but I wouldn’t advise being aggressively ignorantly hostile to cops no matter what they’re doing. If you’re a victim of police abuse, they have all the power in that moment and being belligerent will not help you. It’s not a matter of principle, it’s a matter of surviving that situation so you can fight it in court where you’ll have a better (i.e. nonzero) chance.
Oh, no, I was agreeing with you, sorry. What I meant was “It really isn’t smart to treat real life like a meme.”
LOL sorry, lazy me didn’t hit the link button and see what it was about, even though I really like how well that lemmy feature works.
It’s all good, I think it’s on me. It would have been hard to interpret the first few words of my message as any way but hostile, I think.
This is mostly a copy-paste from my comment in another post, but:
Dont literally not talk to the police.
Example: If you are at a car crash, and you literally remain silent and don’t verbally deny fault, the cops will assume its your fault (since the other driver will obviously deny fault) and the police report is say “[Your name] is at fault”, and that’s gonna fuck up the insurance claims. Always deny fault (but don’t make up false statements in the process of doing so).
Also, if you are in the US, and is a suspect of an alleged crime, don’t actually literally remain completely silent. You have to verbally invoke your 5th amendment rights to protect against court shenanigans.
Excerpt from wikipedia:
In June 2010, the Supreme Court ruled in Berghuis v. Thompkins that a criminal suspect must now invoke the right to remain silent unambiguously. Unless and until the suspect actually states that he is relying on that right, police may continue to interact with (or question) him, and any voluntary statement he makes can be used in court. The mere act of remaining silent is, on its own, insufficient to imply the suspect has invoked those rights. Furthermore, a voluntary reply, even after lengthy silence, can be construed as implying a waiver. The new rule will defer to police in cases where the suspect fails to assert the right to remain silent. This standard was extended in Salinas v. Texas in 2013 to cases where individuals not in custody who volunteer to answer officers’ questions and who are not told their Miranda rights. The Court stated that there was no “ritualistic formula” necessary to assert this right, but that a person could not do so “by simply standing mute”.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Explicit_invocation
Just say a simple phrase such as “I hereby invoke my 5th amendment right to silence, and I want to talk to a lawyer”. Or if not in the US, just leave out the “5th amendment” part.
(also, might be a good idea to have a few phone numbers of criminal defence attorneys memorized)
Another helpful phrase: “Am I being charged with a crime or am I free to go?”
oh right, of course. this guide is for interacting with US police. as if the rest of the world doesn’t exist and we should all assume that everything posted to the internet applies specifically to US citizens. cool thanks
Fixed the title for you, my apologies.
Why not post to a cop forum “how to deal with the people you have to deal with.” ?
Because most of us haven’t taken classes about the book “On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society” while most US cops have.
Why not post to a cop forum “how to deal with the people you have to deal with.” ?
I think the George Floyd protests accomplished a pretty large amount of this. Prior to about 2014, the state of policing in the US had some absolutely fatal flaws. No pun intended. Now, training on use of force is totally different, bodycams are pretty much universal, a lot of stuff has changed.
There’s actually still more that is needed, and a lot in our criminal justice system that still needs improvement, but the cops’ part of the equation has actually had some of the most attention to it recently, so it’s in the best shape, relatively speaking. The court system and the prisons are where a lot of attention needs to go, now.
most US cops have
This is absolutely false. Tell me which classes, and what their enrollment numbers are. There are a little over a million cops in the US.
Maybe you want to go as far as “Were you shoplifting?” “What? No. That wasn’t me, man.” … do your best imitation of someone who just fell from the sky. “So you’ve NEVER MET your neighbor. Your neighbor across the hall.” “Nope.” “Are you sure?” “Yeah, I don’t know.”
Wrong.
Don’t tell the cops “I don’t know” or “I didn’t see anything,” or anything of that ilk. Don’t try to plead innocence. Don’t try to use logic. It will only ever work against you, and it will never work in your favor. Always always always always.
Just tell them you exercise your right to be silent. Over and over again, if necessary. That is all you say. Be a broken record. There is no situation where you are actually obligated (in the US) to answer any type of questions for any type of law enforcement, at any time, for any reason, ever. That’s all you need to tell them. You don’t answer questions. You don’t answer why you don’t answer questions.
This is because you can also be prosecuted for lying to them, and their grounds for accusing you of lying can be pretty shaky but you still might get convicted. You can’t be prosecuted for saying nothing.
Note that this will not prevent them from lying to you, which is legal, and making spurious threats of arrest or similar to attempt to intimidate you into complying. Be aware that this is automatically bullshit. At worst the can hold you for up to 48 hours (-ish, state laws vary on that point somewhat) without charging you with anything and even if they do, you still don’t have to say anything to them.
If this happens, lawyer up immediately. You can sue them afterwards if it comes about that they violated any of your civil rights in the process.
In light of all of the above, I don’t deal with the police at all.
Name and if necessary, driver’s license. That’s it. That’s all I’m legally obligated to provide in my state, and even then only in specific circumstances. If they’re on my actual property they can pack sand; No warrant, interaction. I won’t talk to them, I won’t even answer the door. If they want to try to bust in illegally, what happens after that is on them.
I will further never, ever call the police for any reason. They simply can’t be trusted. If I have a problem with someone or something, I will solve it myself. The cops in my area have near as makes no difference to a 0% clearance rate for nuisance crimes, assault/battery, thefts, and burglaries anyway. Unless you need a report for insurance purposes it’s useless, and at that rate I’ll have my attorney call them on my behalf. They are not in the business of helping you. So don’t even expect that they will.
TL;DR: Don’t talk to the police.
“What day is it? IT’S SHUT THE FUCK UP FRIDAY!”
I am so happy to see this. I posted one of the videos below.
It is always Friday.
This is correct answer, never speak to the police. They can and will use anything you say and try to make you guilty of SOMETHING.
…And even if you are not the perpetrator, that doesn’t matter. The police are pressured to arrest somebody. At the end of the day it really doesn’t matter to them who it is, and the perp got a way while in the meantime you’re standing right here. It’s much easier to harass you.
Do you have warrants? Are you sure? Do you have parking tickets? Is your name similar to someone else they want for something else? Do they smell weed? Are you black? Etc., etc., etc.
It’s not worth it. Don’t interact.
And even if you are not the perpetrator, that doesn’t matter. The police are pressured to arrest somebody.
This part, I definitely know is wrong. Some cops do have a particular stick up their ass about liking to arrest people for marginal reasons. The majority of cops, in any given interaction, dislike arresting people, because it’s paperwork, and they get paid the same either way. They’re not looking to arrest some random person if they can’t find the actual perpetrator. With very rare and corrupt exceptions, it’ll wind up being a massive waste of resources when they have to be released, or go to trial and get off because there is literally 0 evidence, and if someone shows a consistent pattern of that, it’ll be a problem.
Is your name similar to someone else they want for something else?
I used to think that you lived in a part of the US where the cops are bad, and we mostly just have a difference of experience. That still might be true, but I more strongly suspect now that you’re basing this on not much more than your particular set of prejudice.
basing this on not much more than your particular set of prejudice.
Wow, just like the police! What a coincidence.
basing “police want to arrest randos for no reason” on your particular set of prejudices
Lol. Lmao, even.
I agree with this. In the US you can only be compelled to answer questions if you are given immunity, which will almost never happen.
Wrong.
Everyone thinks they have rights until there’s a gun in their face.
When the fascists knock on your door you do what you must to survive and never throw anyone else under the bus.
In that scenario, my people have an ancient and traditional saying:
It is on, son.
usa sounds like a nightmare
You don’t actually have the right to remain silent as pertains to other people’s crimes. You could be compelled to testify, if it comes to that, and in theory you could be prosecuted if you lie, although it’s very unlikely to happen.
There are situations where what you’re saying is accurate: Every single cop who might answer the call for service is the enemy, or you might get a really bad outcome for “snitching,” or simply stonewalling with mild hostility is better for some reason than “I don’t know her.” My advice was general advice for most of the US, not applicable to every situation someone might find themselves in.
Compelled to testify in court is very different from talking to the police at your door.
You can be subpoenaed to testify in court. You cannot be compelled to talk to the police.
Correct. I was mostly responding to your use of “right to remain silent” when asked about your neighbors. It just doesn’t work that way. You could go with “I don’t want to tell you” or “I don’t have to tell you,” but if you had to pick one general answer to recommend, I’m a lot more comfortable going with “I don’t know” or “I don’t remember” instead of those options.
There is no US law requiring you to talk to cops. About crimes you might have committed or witnessed. You could be forced to testify in court but never to a police officer.
Completely correct. I was mostly just responding to the use of the phrase “right to remain silent” about someone else’s crimes. Using legal terminology wrongly with the cops is a bad idea.
This is false
